Rising to the top of tennis stardom, Chris Evert talks about her groundbreaking career as a legendary athlete.
Debbie Millman:
When you think of Chris Evert, you might think of her many years at the very top of women’s tennis, of her double handed backhand and her way of dominating the baseline. You might remember her epic matches with tennis legends, including Billy Jean King and Martina Navratilova. Or you might think of her as an expert tennis commentator on television, where for decades now she’s been displaying her deep knowledge of the physical and psychological aspects of the game. Along with being central to the development of women’s tennis as a major sporting event, she has also other creative passions, including jewelry design. Today, we’re going to talk about her new line of tennis bracelets and her groundbreaking legendary career. Chris Evert, welcome to design matters.
Chris Evert:
Thank you. I’m so happy to be here with you,
Debbie Millman:
Chris, I understand when you were five years old, you were in the live audience of a popular children’s program called the Skipper Chuck Show, and the audience was all kids. And there was a segment where in Skipper Chuck would ask questions. It just so happened that on your one appearance on the show, Skipp put a microphone in front of you and asked what your father did for a living. You lied. What did you say? And why did you say it?
Chris Evert:
That was my first performance on TV and you’re right, I did lie. And I think at that time, my father was a teaching tennis pro and I was embarrassed because all these other kids were saying, my dad’s a doctor, my dad’s a lawyer. So I was embarrassed. I’ll just put it out there. So I said, he’s a painter.
Debbie Millman:
Where did that come from?
Chris Evert:
And I don’t even know if I meant, did he paint houses or was he an artist or what? You got me. I was thrown off. I didn’t want to say he was a tennis pro or instructor because there were very few of those in those days and I wanted to be more mainstream. So I said he was a painter. I hope you’re not saying this set me up for the rest of my life.
Debbie Millman:
Oh my God. No, not at all.
Chris Evert:
Because it could be something there.
Debbie Millman:
My mom was a painter when I was growing up and I remember I once lied and said she was a receptionist.
Chris Evert:
Oh, thank heavens. I’m not the only one that lies. Okay, good.
Debbie Millman:
What did your dad think of being recategorized?
Chris Evert:
I think he laughed. They were just laughing. It was like what? They were in the audience and he just laughed. And I just was very shy at that time and I didn’t like attention. And I just didn’t want to be controversial and different than anybody else so I just went mainstream with the painter word.
Debbie Millman:
Yep. Your dad was first introduced to tennis as a ball boy for the legendary player, Bill Tilden, where he honed his skills on courts made of wooden boards. And he received a tennis scholarship to Notre Dame where he was a captain and played number one singles. What made him decide to become a tennis coach?
Chris Evert:
Well, I don’t think he had any choice because he played number one for Notre Dame. And he also played on the men’s tour, professional tour, well, it was amateur tour in those days. But he actually won the Canadian open. He won the national indoors. He was really starting to make a name for himself. And then he got drafted and he went into the Navy for two years. And when he came back, he realized that he had to get a job and he had to make money and he had to earn a living. It was time to be serious and get a serious job.
Debbie Millman:
Your dad worked at holiday park in Florida and started coaching you and all your siblings when you were each five or six years old. And you’ve all made tennis a significant part of your lives. All that being said, you’ve stated that your dad might have been prouder of not having to pay for college for any of his kids than he was of your specific success. And you’ve also written about how when you were very young, you preferred to swim with your friends than play tennis and remember being very mad at him because he took you away from that. Did you resent playing tennis at first?
Chris Evert:
That was interesting. Yeah, I liked to have my friends. And every day after school, I would go over to Kara Bennett’s house. She was my best friend and she had a pool at her house and we did not have a pool at our house. We were not that lucky and we didn’t have that much money. So I would go over to her house and swim and then we’d have barbecues. And all of a sudden, one day my dad picked me up from school and he brought me to holiday park. And I’m like, what the? Of course, I wasn’t thinking that. But I was like crushed. I was crushed. And he started bringing me over to holiday park every day. And there was no more Kara Bennett pool parties except maybe on the weekends. But even that fizzled out when I started playing tournaments on the weekend. So I was definitely resentful in the beginning, as resentful as a five-year-old or a six-year-old could feel, but it’s not a nice feeling.
I couldn’t voice my opinion because my dad, he was a very dominant kind of a guy and you didn’t say no to him. He was very strict. And I do remember feeling resentful. But then, time went by and I developed new friendships with the girls at holiday park. I mean, it took a little while, but then I started to have some friends there and started to play well. And I started to have something that I was good at. So the thought of Kara Bennett and the barbecues kind of went out the window within a year or two. And I started to establish the fact that I was a good junior player.
Debbie Millman:
When did you first realize you had talent?
Chris Evert:
I think you have talent when you play tournaments and you measure yourself against other girls and you see the results and winning matches, and then you get to the semifinals and then you get to the finals. And I was always, even in the 10 and unders, one or two in the country, and the 12 and unders, I was one and 14, I was one. And so I was a very successful junior player. It was really good for self-esteem. At that young of an age, I think kids need to feel good about themselves. And every time I was on the court and I was winning matches and I was focusing. And I was really perfecting my craft at a young age, it made me feel valued and it made me feel really good. And the other thing is, I was making my dad happy. I think that was a big part of my tennis too.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah, I read that a big part of your drive to succeed early on was partly due to a desire to get praise from him. Was he a tough coach?
Chris Evert:
No. When I look back, my father never yelled at me once because I lost. He only got mad one time when I gave up and I just gave up. I was so discouraged that I just gave up in a match and then he got mad. But he was one of the better tennis dads, no pressure. He didn’t even go to tournaments to watch. He sent my mother because he got too nervous, but he was strict. It’s like, okay, practice time’s at eight o’clock in the morning. You’re going to practice four hours today. After it rains, you’re going to practice. No, you cannot go to a sleepover because you have a tournament the next day. I mean, in that respect, he was pretty strict. But to me, strict is different than dominating or the fact that he didn’t give me any freedom to do anything.
Debbie Millman:
Your dad taught you something that has become instrumental to your success. He taught you how to bottle your emotions during a match and never give your opponents an indication of how you’re feeling. And I read that he taught you that any time you show emotion, you give your opponent an opening to play you as well as the game, to exploit your mood and coax you into poor strategic choices. And I was wondering, how did he teach you that?
Chris Evert:
I think he just watched me in practice one day and I like banged my racket or threw it or something, which I did often in practice. And finally he said to me, he goes, “Chrissy, you got to stay calm. You got to be cool out here.” He goes, “Because you don’t want to let your opponent see that you’re upset because they’ll have that aha moment. I’ve got her. And they’ll gain more confidence.” And I became known as the poker face after that, like little miss poker face because I would not let my opponent see if I was discouraged or not. If I was not was mad, if I was unhappy with the way I was playing, I just had that placid of look on my face. And I think that won me a lot of points, a lot of matches, and a lot of grand slam titles, just having that temperament. It really did work. Because whenever I played a girl and I saw that she was upset and banging rack and discouraged, I mean, I knew I had her. So that’s really sending a message across the net to the other player.
Debbie Millman:
How were you able to manage that? I just was watching the new series, a league of their own and that famous line, there’s no crying in baseball shows up again in this series, which made me really happy. I can’t control when I feel emotional. Just preparing for a show like today, I can’t imagine being on the world stage and having that kind of pressure and being able to control your emotions. And so few athletes actually can. Was there techniques that you used to be able to do that?
Chris Evert:
Well, you said something very important. You said you maybe have tears before the show or whatever. It’s just during that performance that I’m like placid and I try to turn the emotions off. Because I’m a firm believer, and I tell all my kids that I mentor in tennis, I tell them when you get too emotional, the mind turns off.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah, I can relate to that.
Chris Evert:
You’re feeling, feeling, feeling, but you’re really not thinking. And you have to think when you’re a tennis player. It came easy to me. And I say that not in a boastful way, but in a way that I wasn’t the naturally strong quick athlete of a Martina or a Navratilova, or a Steffi Graf, or a Serena Williams. So I had to compensate and find other ways, other edges. And I realized at a young age that my temperament by being calm and cool on the court, by being present in every single point, and trying to win every single point, and having just a good mental, being strong mentally, I felt that, that was the strength of my game. But trust me in my personal life, I’m a wreck.
Debbie Millman:
It makes me feel a little bit better.
Chris Evert:
And then you raise kids and you go, what the heck? What do I do now? My hands are up in the air all the time. So I think that was the only place that I could control myself and I could be in control. So I find that the players that have a lot of talent are the ones that somehow don’t always make the right decisions in their game because they have too many choices or maybe they’re a little too emotional. There are players that are very talented physically, very talented mentally, and very talented emotionally. But it’s great if you can have all three
Debbie Millman:
You’ve said that because you were small and not the type of player who was going to pile up winners, your dad built your game around minimizing errors. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what that means?
Chris Evert:
Well, I couldn’t blow anybody off the court with my power because I was small. Even as a pro I went and that really annoyed me because I did everything Martina did. I went into the gym like she did and I trained like she did. And it’s funny, we used to train together and she did 35-pound weights and I did 15-pound weights. So that was the difference. But I did everything. The reps were the same. But you just have to really be aware of your strengths and your weaknesses and have that self-awareness of yourself. And I tried to be consistent and I tried to get every ball in the court and I tried to place it well.
I tried to move my opponent from side to side. I tried to out steady them. I tried to drop shot. I used my drop shot, my lo, I had some variety in my game. And I just feel like nowadays with this power game, everybody talks about, oh, so and so hit 35 winners. Yeah, well they hit 45 errors. It kind of balances. You lose a point when you make an error and you win a point when you make a winner. So I was winning more points, forcing my opponent into making an error than I was make making winners.
Debbie Millman:
Is it true that your two-handed backhand was developed out of necessity more than desire?
Chris Evert:
Yes, because at five years old we didn’t have the children’s rackets back then. We used adult rackets so they were heavy. And I was fine with my forehand, but that backhand, when I had to come over here and use it the back of my right arm, very often the rack would fall out of my hand. So I just got frustrated one day and just gripped it with two hands and started hitting with two hands. And it was mainly for strength reasons. But at the same time across the world, Bjorn Borg was doing it. And in Belleville, Illinois, Jimmy Connors was doing it. And so it was like, I think the three of us, if anybody really started that trend
Debbie Millman:
So much has been written about the impact that your father has had on your life. But your mother was also very influential as well. What was the most powerful or enduring lesson that she taught you?
Chris Evert:
Yeah, it’s interesting you say that. Because I do a lot of interviews and mainly it’s about my career and I talk about my dad a lot. He was my inspiration when I played, he taught me how to play, he was my coach my whole life. And I think I did an interview two weeks ago and talked the whole time about my dad. And I looked at a picture of my mother on the wall and I just burst into tears.
Debbie Millman:
Oh.
Chris Evert:
I know. Because I don’t talk about her enough. And she was the glue to the family. She was someone who was the opposite of my dad. She was very sweet and very calm and thought it was very important that we were normal kids and that we did other things besides play tennis. But in those days in the ’50s and the ’60s, the wife had her place. And her place was to honor my dad and really sort do what… He was the boss of the family. But she went travel to Therma with me, thank heavens. And because she was so relaxed and she didn’t know a lot about tennis, it actually kept me relaxed. And we’d go to museums and we’d go sighting in Paris. I would never have done that with my dad. So my mom helped to keep me more well balanced and calmer, I think that my dad ever could have done. She never said a bad word about anybody. She was a saint in my eyes.
Debbie Millman:
Well clearly, you’re the product of good parenting.
Chris Evert:
I had good parents, but you can also have good parents and not turn out well.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah, that’s true. Or you can also have terrible parents and turn out well.
Chris Evert:
Yeah, great. You just never know. But I was very lucky to have, especially nowadays when in tennis there have been parents that haven’t been so great with their kids. So I feel very fortunate.
Debbie Millman:
You started playing state tournaments when you were about 10 years old. And I read that one of the favorite family trips was piling into the family station wagon complete with a bed in the back to head to the USTA national open for girls under 12 in Chattanooga, Tennessee. How old were you when you won your first title?
Chris Evert:
I was 12. I was runner up in the 10 and unders, but I won the 12 and unders in Chattanooga Tennessee. And yeah, we’d pile everybody in the car and it was such a thrill to stay at the Holiday Inn.
Debbie Millman:
I read that you love the vibrating beds
Chris Evert:
Because the bed vibrated, it cost a quarter, but we would just jump into bed. And that was such an experience. And then it had a pool. So after our matches, we were allowed to go swimming. I mean, that was a thrill. That was a thrill for us
Debbie Millman:
Of all the Evert children, you became the biggest tennis star. What gave your dad and mom the sense that you had what it took?
Chris Evert:
We didn’t really talk about that. How come Chrissy became number one and nobody else did. I mean, we really didn’t talk about it much. And I have to say, when you brought up earlier about, Drew is my oldest brother and then John’s my other brother and Claire’s my youngest sister. And the three of them played number one for their college. And my dad never had to pay a cent. So I think he was probably as proud if not more proud of them. And then Jeanie and I, my late sister and I, turned professional. So I think I had more hunger. I think my other siblings were more normal and they wanted to go to football games and they wanted to go to college and it wasn’t life or death when they lost a match. And I think that for me, I don’t know. I just sensed at an early age that I started winning nationals and uh-oh, better watch out. I’m going to maybe turn pro one day. And then when I turned pro, I took off, I just took off. And it’s the first time you win a big title and you win those trophies it’s like, you’re on top of the world and I like that feeling.
Debbie Millman:
What advice would you have for parents that are nurturing their children’s athletic talent? When do you know if there really is an opportunity to be a star or when it’s just a dream?
Chris Evert:
I’ve had a tennis academy for 25 years now. And that question comes up a lot. As far as there are a lot of pushy parents. There are a lot of parents that want it more than the kids. I’m just like, whoa, be their mother. Be their father. Don’t be talking all the time about tennis. They’re putting enough pressure on themselves inwardly. Your role is to take the pressure off. Your role is to reconfirm I love you so much and I’m just so happy. I’m very proud to go out and watch you play. And win or lose as long as you try, we’re so proud of you. That kind of a message. But not all parents do that because they kind of want it for themselves or they want it too much for the kid. And then I say, leave it to the coach, leave the coaching to the coach. Certainly, you can be involved in this situation. We include you. Any of your thoughts, we include you, but talk to the coach and it’s a tough balance. It’s a tough balance, fine line, it really is.
Debbie Millman:
By the time you were in eighth grade, you became the number one nationally ranked player in the girls 14 and under division. And one year later in 1970, and I remember this, you defeated the number one ranked women’s professional player in the world, Margaret Court by a score of 7-6, 7-6, and Margaret had just recently won all four grand slam single titles in the same calendar year, a feat that had been accomplished only five times in the history of the sport. Yet you thought of your win as a fluke. How and why did you think that?
Chris Evert:
Did I?
Debbie Millman:
Yeah. I mean, I’ve seen it in a few different interviews that you thought, your win of her in that moment was just a fluke.
Chris Evert:
I mean, I beat her fair and square on. It was on clay, which was my favorite surface. My best and clay was her worst. I mean, I think she had a lot going against her. I think she had just won the grand slam. She was tired. She had committed to playing that tournament after the US open. So probably she was drained from the year. And what really impressed me was that night there was a cocktail party and she was gracious enough to go to the cocktail party. Where I’m telling you nowadays, if you lose a match, there aren’t any cocktail parties that you go to.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah. But you were 15. I mean, what did you make of that? I mean, aside from it being a fluke, how did that feel? 15 years old.
Chris Evert:
It wasn’t a fluke. If I said that, I was probably just trying to be humble. But now looking back, it wasn’t a fluke because I continued to beat her.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah.
Chris Evert:
I mean, I had many more wins over her and I remember beating Billy Jean King six, love six, one on clay. Now, if I had played her on a grass court or a hard court, it probably would’ve been a different result. But I think it was because it was the clay, that was what I was brought up on. The women in that day pretty much only served and volleyed and they didn’t have good ground strokes. And I was raised in the new generation to have good ground strokes. So I just outstudied her and won the match.
Debbie Millman:
One year later at 16, still in high school, you made your major tournament debut at the 1971 US open. You beat Eda Bunting, six, one, six, zero. Your next three matches went three sets with you coming back from behind each time to defeat Mary-Ann Eisel, Françoise Dürr, and Leslie Hunt, before eventual champion, Billy Jean King, who was 27 at the time stopped your streak. And in the process, Chrissy, you became the youngest semifinalist in US open history. All of that being said for the first two years on the tennis circuit, you said that none of the women on the tour would speak to you. Why?
Chris Evert:
Because I was getting all the press. I was on the cover of Newsweek. I was the it girl at that. Nobody had seen a young girl until then do so well, a young school girl, an all-American girl. And I was a promoter’s dream. I was a sponsor’s dream. And the reason why was because basically they, the other women professionals had done all the work. They had done all the work to provide a professional tour for women, for 200, 300 women. They had provided a way to support the sport, to support the women. They knocked on sponsors doors and got great sponsorship. I think Philip Morris was our first sponsor. So they did all the work and I kind of came slithered right in there and started beating them. And they then turned their attention to me. So I 100% understand why they felt the way that they did. There are some of them that were nice by the way.
Debbie Millman:
Well, ultimately it was Billy Jean King who helped change their attitudes.
Chris Evert:
Yes.
Debbie Millman:
How did she do that?
Chris Evert:
I wasn’t there, but supposedly she had a meeting with them, with all, with Rosie Casals, and all the other women, professional players. And actually Rosie was very outspoken about not kind of liking me. And then she ended up being one of my better friends after that. So it’s funny, we all became friends after that. But I think she talked to them and said, “Listen, Chrissy is putting money in our pockets.” I remember that quote. She is bringing more people to the table. She’s bringing more people to the matches. She’s bringing more sponsorship, more money, more publicity, more TV. And this is very important for the growth of the game of women’s tennis. You should be lucky that she’s there. And I think that kind of changed their philosophy a little bit. So it was Billy Jean that, she was the one person that wasn’t threatened by me. It was nice of her.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah.
Chris Evert:
Because she had vision. She always saw the long term. She always saw what could happen, which was great.
Debbie Millman:
Are you good friends to this day?
Chris Evert:
Great friends, yeah. Great friends with Billy Jean. Great friends with Martina. We all stuck together through thick and thin and we just have always supported each other. I think women should support each other.
Debbie Millman:
You turn professional at 18 in 1972 and began what can only be called an assault, an all-out assault on the record books. And I want to share a short list of your extraordinary accomplishments now. You became the first player, male or female to win 1000 singles. You won 18 grand slam singles titles, 157 single titles, and 32 double titles. In your 303 tournaments played, you reached 273 semifinals with a win loss record of 90.1%. You are ranked the best female tennis player in the world for 260 weeks. You were the year end world number one singles player in 1974, 75, 76, 77, 78, 80, and 81. You won the US open six times, Wimbledon three time, the French opened seven times, the WTA tour championships four times and helped the US win the fed cup eight times. Just like bow down, Chrissy. I’m bowing down.
Chris Evert:
Thank you.
Debbie Millman:
Congratulations.
Chris Evert:
Thank you.
Debbie Millman:
You’ve changed the world of women’s sports in such a profound way. And I actually have to say I’m six years old, I watched all of it. You were such a hero to so many young women then and now. Do you have a sense of what that means or do you just feel like it was a fluke?
Chris Evert:
When I look back, sometimes I don’t recognize that person, that person was a-
Debbie Millman:
Why?
Chris Evert:
She was so, or I was so disciplined and so dedicated and committed to one thing, and that was to win. When people ask me, what do you think you’ve done for the game of tennis? And I’d always say, oh my gosh, I go, I had two huge trailblazers in my era, Billy Jean King and Martina Navratilova. And Billy Jean just opened the doors to equality and equal pay. And she just was such a visionary and such a great leader to all of us. And Martina coming out as gay. And she had her own leadership and she had her own path that she followed in a very, very authentic way. And I kind of was a girl next door. I mean, I was like, okay, that’s kind of like white bread. I kind of got lost in that shuffle a little bit.
But when I look back, I realized that what I helped to do was to encourage young girls to become tennis players. To say, “Hey, it’s okay to be athletic. It’s okay to have muscles. It’s okay to be tough.” You can still be feminine. You can still have your friends. You can still wear your jewelry, which we’ll get into later. You can still be yourself. Because when I first came on the scene, having muscles and being tough was not attractive.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah.
Chris Evert:
It was taboo. I mean, when you look at it, it was taboo. So I think that I helped to bring some more tennis players to the table. And also, I think what I did was I think I made people realize that, or young girls realize, hey, you don’t have to be the biggest, the strongest. You don’t have to hit the hardest. You don’t have to be the most powerful. You don’t have to move the quickest. That if you work hard and you put your mind to something, you can still excel. Look at me, I’m five foot six and I couldn’t blow anybody off the court. So just giving inspiration to young girls, I think. Even more than the records, I think means more to me.
Debbie Millman:
Your domination of the game and your sort of steely demeanor on the court earned you several nicknames, including things like the ice princess. What did you make of that?
Chris Evert:
Those nicknames were formed the first year I went over to Wimbledon the British press.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah, they thought a school girl should be giggly. And so they dubbed you the ice maiden.
Chris Evert:
Exactly.
Debbie Millman:
Ice maiden.
Chris Evert:
I was called little miss metronome because all I did was just hit every ball back. I was called little miss money bags when I was speaking out for equal pay after Billy Jean kind of tutored me on that. But little miss icicle because their interpretation was that I was cold on the court. But I was just mentally tough and I was keeping everything inside. And as I said to you, before I realized at a young age that the more emotion you feel, it shuts you down. It shuts your mind down, it shuts your body down and you cannot play, relax, great tennis.
Debbie Millman:
Do you think that those types of nicknames might happen now? How do you think the press impacts the way tennis players play now?
Chris Evert:
Oh, no. It would be very inappropriate. That’s the word now. Inappropriate. I mean, I know that as a commentator, I have to watch everything I say about a player. If I say someone’s very athletic, that can also mean that they’re not mentally tough. Trust me, I’ve been told these things. So it’s like in this day and age, I have to watch everything you say. In that day, you could say anything you wanted to. You could say somebody was a clown and you wouldn’t get in trouble. You could say the bad boys of tennis and-
Debbie Millman:
Elenas Dassi was nasty dasasi. Yeah.
Chris Evert:
Nasty. Right. He was nasty. Jimmy was the bad boy. And John Macro is the bad boy. And now it’s like, Kyrgios is sort of the bad boy, but they’re very cautious with how they explain it. It’s just so different now, which I don’t know good or bad, I don’t know which one. I don’t know which is better. I don’t know. I think we’re gone over a little bit too far with the… As a commentator, I would like to say, if somebody’s not playing well, somebody’s playing poorly even, if they’re really playing bad instead of saying, oh, I guess it’s not her day. Somebody’s playing poorly right now. She’s a much better tennis player, but you’d get blasted if you said that.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah. How did you feel when you weren’t playing? Well, how did you sort pick yourself up after losing a match?
Chris Evert:
I played a match once when I was 16 against Nancy Richie and I was down six, one, five, love, 40, love. And I won the match. Think about that, six, one, five, love, 40, love and I won the match. And I think if a player comes from behind in a match, they remember that. And that’s the beauty of tennis unlike any other sport. I mean, you look at skiing or you look at all these Olympic sports, you make one little mistake, you’re out. You can be down six, love and still win a match. You can always come back. You can always change the momentum of a match. And if you truly believe that, you lose six, love, you sit down on the side of the court and you think, okay, what can I do different? You’ve got to go to plan B. You have a plan B, you still might win the match.
The only time I was negative on the court is when Martina Navratilova, she beat me 13 times in a row. And she was so dominant she just blew me off the court for two and a half years. And I’d walk on the court and I’d go, I just, like I knew I was going to lose and it’s not the right way. I wish I hadn’t felt that way, but she owned me during those two and a half years. I don’t know how. But that 14th match, I beat her. And then after I beat her, I beat her again and again and again. So I finally realized I just was so stubborn, I didn’t want to change my game, but I changed my game and I beat her.
Debbie Millman:
Your rivalry would come to define women’s tennis for years over the course of 16 years, you played each other 80 times, 60 of them in finals. And Billy Jean King said that your rivalry is not only one of the most important rivalries in tennis, it is one of the most important rivalries in all sports. The two of them took the baton from our generation and moved the sport forward. They took tennis, not just women’s tennis, to a new level. Did playing Martina change your game? I mean, what was it that turned that 13th loss into a 14th victory?
Chris Evert:
Yeah, we made each other better. Because before I had her number the first few years, and she gets mad at me when I say this, but when I first saw her, she was a little chubby and she had a little bit of a temper. She would cry on the court and she didn’t move that well. And I had her number and I would beat her. And then all of a sudden, she got together with Nancy Lieberman, who later became her partner. Nancy, as you know, was a great basketball player. And Nancy watched a match where I beat her six love, six love, I think on clay. And Nancy jerked her off the cord and said, that was the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen in my life. I’m going to get you into shape.
So the next year Martin got into great shape. And then that started her two and a half years of dominance. So we both had our periods where I dominated, she dominated. And at the end, the last third of our rivalry, I think we were pretty even, I beat her at the French open twice. She beat me at the US open. And as it ended up, we both ended up winning 18 grand slam titles, which we look at each other we go, yeah, that was only appropriate that we ended up with the same amount of grand slam titles.
Debbie Millman:
I read at sort of towards the end of your playing each other, you sort of felt bad when you beat her. Is that true?
Chris Evert:
Yeah, we did. Because at the end of the day on Sunday when the finals were being played, we were the last two in the locker room. And it was always a little tense and we’re getting ready for the match and we’re getting stretched out and we’re talking to our coaches. But one of us would win, one of us would lose, we’d go back in the locker room. And one of us would be comforting the other one. One of us would be probably crying and the other one would come over and put their arm around. How can you not get close when you are in that situation for years. And same with Billy Jean, there’s a really deep connection between the three of us.
Debbie Millman:
Do you think that the younger tennis players have that kind of intimacy?
Chris Evert:
I don’t know. I think that we had it because our generation built a tour and we worked hard to build that tour. We did a lot of press. We talked to a lot of sponsors. We promoted women’s tennis. This generation is different because in a sense they’re reaping the benefits of it, but in their own way, because of social media, they have a lot of other pressures that we didn’t have. And there’s more money now in today’s game, everybody has their own teams. You got the coach, you got the hitting partner, you’ve got the physio, you got the mental coach. Now there’s so much money that they can pay for teams that can work on their bodies and work on their minds. And it may extend their career for another 10 years. Serena’s playing at 40 years old right now, there are a lot of players that are playing in their late ’30s. In our day, usually early ’30s was the retirement age. And they’re under the microscope even more so just with the social media. The price of privacy is, you kind of wonder if it’s worth it.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah. I mean, the scrutiny is, I mean, I can’t even imagine the pressure and how to contain that. Chrissy, you retired from professional tennis in 1989 and at the time of your retirement, I found this quote, John McEnroe stated, “She was an assassin that dressed nice and said the right things. And meanwhile, just cut you to shreds on the court.”
Chris Evert:
I saw another quote where he said, “Cut you open, take your heart out and then put it back in and sew it up.”
Debbie Millman:
Another one, yeah.
Chris Evert:
Yeah.
Debbie Millman:
Well, good old John.
Chris Evert:
No, he had it right.
Debbie Millman:
He was your father’s favorite player, right?
Chris Evert:
He was. He and I didn’t really get along when we were playing on the tour because he thought because I said the right things that I was fake, I thought that he had a bad temper. So we didn’t get along that well. But then we started working with each other for first NBC now, ESPN, and now we’re close. Now we kind of laugh, he’s meld a lot. And I have stronger opinions, so he likes that too.
Debbie Millman:
Since retiring, you founded the Evert tennis academy with several family members, including your brother, John, and your dad. And the academy trains both talented high school students and full-time professional level players. What kind of teacher are you now?
Chris Evert:
I’m more of an encouraging. I try to be so encouraging. Because I just know the frustrations that these kids go through. I think I’m more suggestions, like I make suggestions to them instead of talking down on them and saying, this is what you should have done this, you should have done this. And I ask them, I said, do you think that was the right choice? So I like the mentor part of it more than I like to give instruction. I like the mentoring, I like the mental aspect of it. I talk to them about pressure. I mean, that’s one area that I can really give good input about what pressure does to your body and how you have to be aware of what it does and sort of compromise with it. You have to go with it. You just can’t not have pressure.
You just kind of have to go with it. Don’t go for the lines and don’t go for the big first serves if you’re feeling shaky. Just kind get your groove back and sort of get some more rhythm in your game and maybe play a little more conservative if you’re shaky. And then when you feel confident, then pull the trigger and go for your shot. So I kind of have a more of the mental aspect of the game. Because when it comes to the grips and open stance, that’s another generation. Even though I know how to teach it, I let our coaches at the academy deal with that.
Debbie Millman:
I want to talk with you about something new you were part of that was inspired by an on the court experience in 1978. During the 1978 US open, you were wearing a diamond bracelet which fell off while you were playing. And at the time I believe that play was temporarily halted. And when asked about it, in the post-match interview, you stated, oh, that was my tennis bracelet. And since then, diamond bracelets have been called tennis bracelets. After all these years, you have partnered with jewelry designer, Monica Rich Kossan to bring the first authentic and original tennis bracelet rooted in its founding story to find jewelry for the first time. How did this partnership come to be?
Chris Evert:
I actually reached out to Monica because I’ve always been a fan of her jewelry and I like the message behind it, a lot of it’s empowerment. And so I reached out to her and I said, there is one time, I think 40 years ago where I put my name on a diamond bracelet for a year, but had no collaboration, had no creativity. It was like an endorsement that all athletes did. They slapped their name on something. They got their pay, but they had nothing to do with it, I said. And I just been thinking a lot about it now where I feel like there was a collaboration that we could join together and create an authentic tennis bracelet and reveal the real story. And she said, “Okay.” She goes, “So what do you remember that day?”
And I said, “I remember playing on center court. It was a green court, the white lines. I remember sweat on the court. I remember my diamonds sparkling.” And she said, “Interesting.” And she mocked up a bracelet that I was knocked my socks off. Because each of the bracelets had a little pear shape drop or a white sapphire, which signified sweat. Then three of the bracelets have a little emerald in the middle of the diamonds that signify the green court at the end there’s a little CE. But it was important for me. And I don’t apologize for this. Some people might say, oh, please, but it was important for me to be feminine when I was playing.
Because I was playing a very rugged sport where you were sweating, you were falling, you had to develop muscles to be strong, to hit the ball. But I also liked wearing my hair in a braid or wearing ruffle bloomers or having a diamond bracelet. The press were all, what happened, what was going on out there that play was suspended? And I said that it’s just my tennis bracelet broke. And I’ve never had my story out there. And I’ve never had my voice out there to explain exactly what happened. So I think I’m excited about it. I’ve seen the pieces, 13 pieces so far, and it is genuine to me. It’s not slapping my name on an endorsement. It happened to me.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah, they’re beautiful, beautiful bracelets.
Chris Evert:
Thank you.
Debbie Millman:
I covet them.
Chris Evert:
Yes, they are.
Debbie Millman:
Did you have a lot of back and forth with Monica? What was the creative process like? Did she show you sketches?
Chris Evert:
Yes.
Debbie Millman:
Talk about how that worked.
Chris Evert:
Yeah, we did. We did it together. I mean, look, I’m not in the jewelry business, but I know what I like. I know what I like. And the first one, was just an all diamond with the little drop with the sweat and the green emerald. And it was pretty. And then she said, “Well, what kind of shapes do you like?” And I go, “I’d like to see a brace that with not just all diamonds and not just a $30,000 bracelet, because I don’t think the younger generation can afford that. Let’s make dainty. Let’s make them not fragile, but dainty so they can stack them.” Because that seems to be what everybody’s doing now with the necklaces, the rings, the bracelets they’ll be less expensive. I would like to have one bracelet that the diamonds are all different shapes, not just round. And space them out, they don’t have to be all together because that’s going to be more expensive. Although there is one that’s all together that’s gorgeous, but we tried to make the pricing for everybody as well.
Debbie Millman:
Yeah, they’re absolutely beautiful. And they’re really unique. I’ve never seen the way that you’ve designed these stones in these different shapes makes it super creative and much more innovative sort of as a statement piece. It’s not just the sort of standard “tennis bracelet”, they’re really beautiful pieces that feel like they have stories in them.
Chris Evert:
And like you said, the standard tennis bracelet was all diamonds.
Debbie Millman:
Right.
Chris Evert:
And you can get $100,000 bracelet that you get 30,000. But it’s like, for people like us, because, look, I was born in a very middle-class family. I could never have afforded something like that. But let’s spread the diamonds a little bit and let’s still have it a beautiful bracelet. And then, okay, a year down the road, you get a raise. You want to stack it with another one. And it’s just a nice look. We want to cater to the younger generation as well.
Debbie Millman:
Absolutely. I think you’ve done that for sure. Chrissy, the last thing I want to talk to you about is your health. You were recently diagnosed with stage one ovarian cancer and went through or going through a course of chemotherapy. How are you doing?
Chris Evert:
I’m doing really well. I actually did my six courses of chemo. They got it early because my sister thank heavens, and in a nutshell, I’ll just tell you the story. My sister, Jeanie, passed away three years ago of ovarian cancer because they got it too late in her and has spread to every part. Ovarian cancer is insidious and it’s hideous. And there are no signs that you have it. And she just started to get tired at the end and said, I better go check this. And sure enough, she was stage four ovarian cancer. So what happened was she agreed that they saved her blood and they put it in a file away. And that’s what genetic testing basically is because they saved her blood. And when another variant came on the scene, they tested her blood with that variant. And that variant showed that she was BRCA positive. I was tested. I was BRCA positive, but it was early stages. So what my doctor said, within a month, I had a hysterectomy for preventive.
Debbie Millman:
So you didn’t know anything about having any cancer at that point?
Chris Evert:
No, I had all my tests. I had blood tests for ovarian cancer, it was negative. I passed every test with the flying colors. So they went in, it was everything out. And then three days later I get a call from my doctor and he said, I’m shocked. I had no idea. He goes, you have cancer in your fallopian tubes and your ovaries.
Debbie Millman:
Oh my God.
Chris Evert:
And in the wash. The wash, which was fluid. We’ve gotten it all out, but we have to go in and just test the lymph nodes. We have to get 15 lymph nodes out and then look around the other areas. So I was like, “Okay, so what you’re saying is it’s either going to be stage one or stage three or four.” And he said, “Yeah.”
Debbie Millman:
How do you handle news like that?
Chris Evert:
I don’t know how I handled that. I don’t know if I was in a fog or what. But I don’t remember specifically how I felt about that. But I remember thinking I could be like my sister. So three or four days later, I get the call and he said clear, clear as can be. But I still had to have six courses of chemotherapy for prevention. And now I have a 90 to 95% chance that it won’t come back.
Debbie Millman:
That seems to be your number, Chrissy, 90% of your matches won 90% chance.
Chris Evert:
Yeah, right.
Debbie Millman:
Do you have any advice for folks who have questions about the BRCA gene testing or what they need to consider for their own health if there’s ovarian cancer in their histories, in their family’s histories?
Chris Evert:
Absolutely. If anybody has ovarian cancer in their family, they have to go get the BRCA test that. It’s just a blood test. Everybody has a BRCA gene, by the way. It’s not just, oh, you have the BRCA. It’s either negative or it’s positive. If you are positive for BRCA, your kids have a 50% chance of being positive for BRCA.
Debbie Millman:
Wow.
Chris Evert:
So if there’s anybody in your family, from your aunts, to your grandmother, to your mother, whatever, you should get tested for ovarian cancer. One thing being that ovarian cancer is you don’t have any signs. Breast cancer, you get a mammogram, then you get an ultrasound and you can detect easier. So you just need to be very on top of your family history, medically 100%.
Debbie Millman:
You’ve said that your sister’s death saved your life.
Chris Evert:
My sisters’ ovarian cancer and by her death and the fact that they kept her blood filed, saved my life. And I should never complain about anything for the rest of my life after that.
Debbie Millman:
Chrissy, you’ve said that playing a tennis match is very like life. If you’re down in a tennis match, you can still change the course of the game. Tennis teaches you a lot about hanging in there and not giving up. And it teaches you a lot about belief in yourself. And I just want to thank you for showing the world just how true that is in the way that you’ve lived your life. And I want to thank you for changing the way tennis is viewed in our culture and showing the world why tennis matters. Thank you so much for joining me on design matters today.
Chris Evert:
Thank you. I enjoyed our talk very much.
Debbie Millman:
Thank you.
Chris Evert:
Thank you.
Debbie Millman:
You can see the new line of beautiful jewelry Chris Evert has created with Monica Rich Kossan at monicarichkossan.com and see everything that Chris is doing at chrisevert.net. This is the 18th year we’ve been podcasting design matters. And I’d like to thank you for listening. And remember, we can talk about making a difference, we could make a difference or we can do both. I’m Debbie Millman and I look forward to talking with you again soon.